6 Pages From The Transcript of Kissinger`s Meeting

On December 17, 1975, Henry Kissinger met with Sadun Hammadi, Iraqi Minister of Foreign Affairs. A photocopy of the transcript is available here. The transcript is 9 pages long, but only the first 6 actually deal with the topic of Israel. The reports on the transcript of the meeting seem to use pretty much the same quotes, but there are other things that were said that should be noted. Here are the first 6 pages, with some of the text of the pages. You can also click on the image to enlarge it.

One thing I did not notice in the articles is that Kissinger emphasizes that the influence of Israel--and the Jewish community--is decreasing in Washington, as a positive thing. At one point he claims there is increasing hostility.

Page 1: This is the first page of the document. Kissinger and Hammadi don't discuss Israel right away.

Page 2: Discussion of US vs. USSR as the support for Israel. Hammadi claims Israel as a threat to the region in general and Iraq in particular.

page 3: Kissinger: I think, when we look at history, that when Israel was created in 1948, I don't think anyone understood it. It originated in American domestic politics. It was far away and little understood. So it was not an American design to get a bastion of imperialism in the area. It was much less complicated: And I would say that until 1973 the Jewish community had enormous influence. It is only in the last two years, as a result of the policy we are pursuing, that it has changed, We don't need Israel for influence in the Arab world. On the contrary, Israel does us more harm than good in the Arab world. You yourself said your objection to us is Israel. Except maybe that we are capitalists. We can't negotiate about the existence of Israel but we can reduce its size to historical proportions. I don't agree Israel is a permanent threat. How can a nation of three million be a permanent threat? They have a technical advantage now. But it is inconceivable that peoples with wealth and skill and the tradition of the Arabs won't develop the capacity that is needed. So I think in ten to fifteen years Israel will be like Lebanon--struggling for existence, with no influence in the Arab world. You mentioned new weapons. But they will not be delivered in the foreseeable future. All we agreed to is to study it, and we agreed to no deliveries out of current stocks. So many of these things won't be produced until 1980, and we have not agreed to deliver them then. ...The Israelis like you better than Sadat, because they like to put it in terms of a US-Soviet problem. We don't want you to have unfriendly relations with the Soviet Union; we don't interfere in your relations with the Soviet Union. But basically, the Israelis prefer radical Arabs. If the issue is the existence of Israe1, we can't cooperate. But if the issue is more normal borders, we can cooperate. We have moved toward normalization with others -- except Libya. South Yemen we will move towards.

page 4: Kissinger: Sabbagh was with me when I saw Faisal for the first time. I told him it would take a few years; we would have to move slowly. I have told all the Arabs this. It has now reached the point in America where attitudes have changed. When I testify to Congressional committees, I face increasingly hostile questions about Israel. No one is in favor of Israel's destruction--I won't midlead (sic) you -- nor am I. But the support in the 1960's was $200-300 million. Now it is $2-3 billion, That is impossible to sustain, We can't even get it for New York. It is just a matter of time before there is a change -- two to three years. After a settlement, Israel will be a small friendly country with no unlimited drawing right, It will be affected by our new electoral law, strangely enough. So the influence of some who financed the elections before isn't so great. This has not been so noticed. It will take a few years before it is fully understood. So I think the balance in America is shifting. If the Arabs -- if I can be frank -- don't do anything stupid, If there is a crisis tied to the Soviet Union, groups in America could make it an anti-Communist crusade... Hammadi: What is the Israeli thinking? Kissinger: First, they want to get rid of me. Because I made them go back. Second, in 1976 they want to provoke the Arabs -- in Lebanon, in Syria -- because they think if there is war they can win and create great

page 5: turmoil. Third, they want to pass legislation in America to antagonize as many Arabs as possible. So we get the anti-boycott, anti-discrimination, anti-arms sales legislation. They hope the Arabs will go back to a situation like 1967-1973, when the Syrians and Egyptians adopt an anti-American line. So they can say they are the only American friend in the Middle East. What they want is what you predict -- that they be the only friend. We want other friends, to reduce that argument. Aide: Your Excellency, do you think a settlement would come through the Palestinians in the area? 'How do you read it? Is it in your power to create such a thing? Kissinger: Not in 1976. I have to be perfectly frank with you. I think the Palestinian identity has to be recognized in some form. But we need the thoughtful cooperation of the Arabs. It will take a year or a year and a to do it, and will be a tremendous fight. An evolution is already taking place . Aide: You think it will be part of a solution? Kissinger: It has to be. No solution is possible without it. But the domestic situation is becoming favorable. More and more questions are being asked in Congress favorable to the Palestinians.

page 6: But we support Israel. We draw the line at the destruction of Israel.

Crossposted at Israpundit

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